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NYHAN: That’s right. I think coup is the wrong way to think about this. We’re not seeing an attempted military takeover. What we’re seeing instead is a violation of the norms of democracy that we depend on to make the peaceful transfer of power possible. And as those norms get called into question, we start to see more of what political scientists call democratic erosion, where a system of government remains a democracy, but the norms and values that make democracy work start to be called into question.

Now, Joe Biden will almost certainly be sworn in on January 20, but a lot of damage could still be done in the meantime. And I think people should avoid thinking that the question is just, will Trump leave, or won’t he? He will leave, but the damage he could leave us is really significant.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. We’ve seen this happen in other countries. As you say, democracy is fragile. There’s always been this sense that the U.S. is exceptional immune somehow. You are most worried in particular about how Republican leaders are promoting and supporting the president’s actions. Why?

NYHAN: Well, we’ve seen throughout the Trump administration that too many Republicans are willing to acquiesce to his false claims. What we’re seeing now, though, is different. What the president is doing challenges the very basis for democracy.

And we’re not just seeing Republicans stand idly by on the sidelines. We’re seeing many leading Republicans endorsing or at least suggesting there’s something to these attacks on our electoral system. And that’s very dangerous because the party system is the engine of democracy. What happens to the Republican Party will shape our politics long after Donald Trump leaves. And if his worst norm violations aren’t just something Republicans pretend not to hear but are instead something that they emulate and amplify, we’re in really big trouble.