Reflections on Oral Argument in the Trump Immunity Case

Having listened to the oral argument this morning, I find myself contemplating two basic points. First, there is the paramount distinction between official acts and private acts, with the significant concessions that much of what Trump did in his effort to subvert the 2020 election were private acts and thus outside any possible scope of presidential immunity. Significantly, there was much discussion at the oral argument of the distinction between Trump-as-candidate (private) versus Trump-as-president (official), with the understanding that anything that Trump did as candidate would not get the benefit of any presidential immunity. To be sure, Trump’s attorney (John Sauer) attempted to argue that some actions that Trump took qualified as official–like his call to Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger, where he asked Raffensperger to “find” him just enough votes to win the state–but it seemed pretty clear, as Michael Dreeben argued for the prosecution (at page 131), that such conduct would qualify as “acting in the capacity as office-seeker, not as President.”

Still, I’m currently more interested in a second important issue that emerged at the oral argument: with respect to those actions which are concededly official and not private, what if any immunity might Trump have in the context of this case? Trump’s attorney, Sauer, continued to press his untenable argument for an absolute presidential immunity, but equally untenable was the D.C. Circuit’s holding that presidents enjoy no immunity whatsoever. So what is the tenable middle ground? Dreeben, persuasively to my mind, argued in favor of a test that would permit prosecution of presidential official actions when undertaken in furtherance of a corrupt private motive. As he put it (at page 126), “for an incumbent president to … use his presidential powers to try to enhance the likelihood that [his plot to subvert the election] succeeds makes the crime in our view worse.”

Justice Alito proposed a test (at page 21) that “a former president cannot be prosecuted for official acts unless no plausible justification could be imagined for what the president did, taking into account history and legal precedent and the information that was provided to the president at the time when the act was taken.” That test might be somewhat more pro-immunity than warranted. For example, I can imagine reformulating it to provide that no president can be prosecuted for official acts unless no reasonable president could believe that the actions were lawful and warranted. But even under Justice Alito’s formulation, I’m not sure that any of Trump’s alleged criminal conduct would be immune from prosecution. Given what Trump was told about the results of the 2020 election by Attorney General Bill Barr, his campaign advisers, and others, there was “no plausible justification” (in Justice Alito’s words) for Trump attempting to undo the result of the election as he did.

What happens to the case now? This question was on the minds of several Justices, as well as many others. It seems to me that one possibility, if Justice Alito’s test or something like it is adopted, is for the Court itself to apply the test to the allegations in the indictment. Trump, after all, is seeking immunity for prosecution of the charges as alleged. But if the allegations set forth presidential behavior that, as Justice Alito put it, can’t plausibly be justified, then the indictment cannot be quashed solely on the basis of the pleadings and, instead, the case must proceed to trial forthwith.

I hope enough Justices can coalesce around the proposition that whatever the scope of presidential immunity may be for a president who appropriately deserves it, Trump’s conduct in an effort to cling to power despite being voted out of office is not within the scope of that immunity–whether his conduct was official or private in nature–and that the only task on remand is to proceed with case expeditiously now that the immunity claim has been rejected.

Note: Trump’s lawyer, Sauer, attempted to justify Trump’s conduct by reference to the role that President Grant played in the disputed Hayes-Tilden election of 1876. But Grant’s conduct, whatever one thinks of it, was entirely different from Trump’s. Grant was not running for reelection, but instead attempting to keep Reconstruction intact until the outcome of the election could be settled pursuant to the rule of law. I discuss Grant’s role in chapter 5 of Ballot Battles: The History of Disputed Elections in the United States, and provide multiple citations on Grant’s role in note 41 to that chapter. One of the cited sources is Brooks D. Simpson, Ulysses S. Grant and the Electoral Crisis of 1876-77, HAYES HISTORICAL JOURNAL, vol. 11, no.2 (Winter 1992). It is a distortion of that historical record to argue that it supports Trump’s claim of immunity in the present case.

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“Standing for Elections in State Courts”

Miriam Seifter and Adam  Sopko have posted this essay to SSRN, which will be published as part of a symposium held by the Illinois Law Review. As a participant in this symposium, I had the opportunity to see an earlier version of this important work. Here’s the abstract:

Election-related litigation is soaring. Litigants regularly challenge every aspect of an election cycle, from who can vote to how votes are cast and counted to the certification of results. Courts have thrown out many of these lawsuits on standing grounds. Given the requirements of traditional federal standing doctrine—including the requirement of individualized injury rather than generalized grievances—these dismissals are at least plausible in federal court.

But most election-related lawsuits today are filed in state court, where standing doctrine is and should be different. State courts are not bound by Article III of the U.S. Constitution, have constitutional commitments to democracy and open courts, and typically have more flexible justiciability doctrines. This Essay urges state courts to build on that foundation through a presumptively permissive approach to election standing. State courts fulfill their judicial role by redressing rather than avoiding threats to state-level democracy. And deciding election-related lawsuits on the merits serves important functions of stability, certainty, and finality, as well as confidence in election outcomes. 

To be sure, the surge in election-related litigation is suboptimal, and some share of the lawsuits are meritless or brought in bad faith. Our argument is simply that standing doctrine is not the best tool for rejecting these lawsuits. The Essay describes other techniques that courts can use to deal with abusive or burdensome litigation without undermining the openness that is foundational to state judicial systems. 

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“Souls to the Polls calls for removal of Wisconsin GOP executive director over text messages”

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

“Souls to the Polls on Thursday called for the removal of the Republican Party of Wisconsin’s new executive director over Election Day 2020 text messages in which he asked about getting supporters of then-President Donald Trump to flood the Milwaukee voting rights group with requests to be taken to the polls.

“The group’s call came after the Journal Sentinel reported on the text messages from new GOP executive director Andrew Iverson when he was Wisconsin head of Trump Victory, a joint operation of the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee in 2020. …

“In a statement, Iverson said this week that the text messages were jokes and weren’t supposed to be taken seriously.

“Huffman [who was the recipient of the texts], however, told the Journal Sentinel he did not take it as a joke and contended Iverson was clearly trying to overwhelm and discourage Souls to the Polls by forcing the group to spend valuable resources taking Trump supporters to various Milwaukee polling locations, where they may or may not have voted.”

Advocates of Australian-style mandatory voting would say that this kind of situation wouldn’t happen if the U.S. had an electoral system in which every adult citizen was obligated to vote and procedures were in place to facilitate the exercise of that obligation. The idea of trying to overwhelm a voter turnout operation so that it cannot function as intended seems rationally malicious (i.e., Machiavellian) only if there is no expectation that every citizen will vote and resources are limited to encourage citizens to do so.

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“Prosecutor to appeal against Texas woman’s acquittal over voting error”

Sam Levine in the Guardian on the latest development in the Crystal Mason case:

“A Texas prosecutor will appeal against a court ruling tossing out a five-year prison sentence for a woman who unintentionally tried to vote while ineligible in the 2016 election, an unexpected move that continues one of the most closely watched voting prosecutions in the US.

“Last month, the second court of appeals, which is based in Fort Worth, threw out the 2018 conviction of Crystal Mason, a Black woman who submitted a provisional ballot in 2016 that ultimately went uncounted. Mason was on supervised release for a federal felony at the time she voted and has said she had no idea she was ineligible. The panel said prosecutors had failed to prove Mason actually knew she was ineligible.”

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“Video offers rare glimpse of police enforcing Arizona’s election laws”

Interesting Washington Post report on the front lines of the “voting wars”–in particular, the practice in Arizona of observers watching drop boxes and the role of local law enforcement in avoiding conflicts between the observers and voters.

The story contains links to body camera footage received through public records requests:


Watch: Body-camera footage shows law enforcement arrive at parking lot to question masked individuals on Oct. 21, 2022.

Watch: Body-camera footage shows additional law enforcement arrive to question masked individuals on Oct. 21, 2022.

Watch: Body-camera footage shows Arizona deputies discuss, enforce election law on Oct. 21, 2022.

Watch: Body-camera footage shows deputies de-escalate tension involving ballot drop box observers on Oct. 22, 2022.

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Rick Hasen’s Live Blog of the Supreme Court’s Oral Argument Over Trump’s Claim of Immunity in the Federal Election Subversion Case (Updates completed)

[This post has been updated.] After a couple of hours of oral argument, it appears that the Supreme Court is unlikely to embrace either Donald Trump’s extreme position—that would seem to give immunity for a president who ordered an assassination… Continue reading